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Barbara and Rüdiger Schwarz
Barbara and Rüdiger Schwarz joined the Deutsche Guggenheim Club in 2001. Their enthusiasm for travel and culture aroused the died-in-the-wool Berliners' interest in the Deutsche Guggenheim Club's program. In an interview, the couple talks about the trips with the club that impressed them most.
How do you feel about Berlin?
Rüdiger Schwarz: We’re old-established Berliners. We’ve both lived here since 1939 and have experienced all of the ups and downs of this city and this country – the end of the war, the occupation of Berlin, the Cold War, the fifties, the division of Germany. The building of the wall had a special mental effect on us. The world changed fundamentally. But we stayed here nevertheless. I’m a lawyer, and at that time I had the opportunity to go into business, to work for a big company which had its main headquarters in Berlin even back when the wall was there. I made my way, and for a long time I was a plenipotentiary with many duties which often brought me to the West. I sat in airplanes several times a week.
Barbara Schwarz: We liked to travel and we traveled a lot. At the same time, Berlin had so much art to offer, naturally also before the Deutsche Guggenheim existed. We’re not absolute experts, but we were very interested in art and joined the Neuer Berliner Kunstverein early on, which had 20 members. We came to modern art through our children and through frequent museum visits with them. The building of the National Gallery was a big event for us. Mies van der Rohe was there in person in a wheelchair when the big roof was put on.
RS: Naturally, we had a different relationship to classical art than to modern art. We felt we had to fill a gap and wanted help. At the end of the nineties, we received a letter from Deutsche Bank introducing the Deutsche Guggenheim Club and giving us the opportunity to join. We thought: “Now that would be something.”
BS: One thing we like about being Deutsche Bank customers is that living art is hanging in the bank branches. We visited the headquarters in Frankfurt, New York and London. Artworks are hanging in all the offices; the higher you go, the more beautiful they are (laughs). The guided tour through the executive floors of the twin towers in Frankfurt was especially impressive, with the famous artworks and the wide, clear hallways.
RS: But joining the Deutsche Guggenheim Club was particularly appealing, because we knew about the Guggenheim Museum. And of course we visited it on our trips to New York.
In the famous Frank Lloyd Wright building.
RS: Yes, and the first time we went there we saw a fantastic exhibition with works by Kandinsky. We knew the paintings from Murnau, where Wassily Kandinsky lived with Gabriele Münter. For years, we spent our vacations in a hotel very close to their house. We were often in the Gabriele Münter house and at the Murnau City Museum, where there was an exhibition devoted to Hilla von Rebay – another connection to the Guggenheim.
BS: What was really impressive was that we thought we recognized every tree in these paintings, and then you see these familiar Bavarian surroundings painted by such a great artist. We’re always thrilled when things come full circle in this way.
RS: In the course of time a kind of mental friendship emerged. We knew the history of the Guggenheim family and had visited the Peggy Guggenheim Foundation in Venice.
BS: We joined the club at an early stage; at the time, there was still only a small circle of members.
RS: I have number 279. Today there are 800 members. That was around the year 2000 and the club was much smaller than it is today. As a result, the members knew each other better.
BS: At that time it wasn’t so “in” to go to the openings. Today all of Berlin flocks there. But the fact that the circle is bigger now doesn’t bother us. On the contrary, we meet former colleagues or old friends there.
RS: I was working here in Berlin on a voluntary basis for my company and for the industry in numerous capacities, so I know many people whom I meet again at openings. The policy of the Deutsche Guggenheim and the club is to open up more and more to the public – which I find really great. It’s very good for Berlin, the museum and the people who go there.
BS: What we particularly like about the Deutsche Guggenheim Club is the fact that you’re not just introduced to the works, but you meet the artists. For example Tom Sachs, who had an exhibition here in Berlin. With the club, we visited him later in his studio in New York. That was exciting, a great experience for all of us. And of course we continually appreciate how well received you are as a club member. That was the case when we went to the Guggenheim Museum in New York during the same trip. Of course it’s very pleasant when you’re given an exclusive guided tour of such an institution. Or during our trip to the last Biennale in Venice, where we were received up on the terrace of the Peggy Guggenheim Museum, which commands a view of the Canal Grande. All of these things have a very special atmosphere.
What has your personal travel highlight been with the club?
BS: For me, it was Milan and Turin. Milan is home to the Fondazione Arnaldo Pomodoro, a gigantic museum. From Milan, we traveled to Varese to see the Panza Collection. That was actually the greatest experience. Mr. Panza is a very old man. He collects everything: Asian art, Minimal Art, color field painting, light installations. All of this modern art is in an old palazzo that an 85-year-old collector guides you through. Absolutely terrific.
RS: We bought the catalog to the collection there. That trip alone was a reason to be a member of the Deutsche Guggenheim Club. At the Panza’s, everything looks like paradise. We had the great fortune of being given a guided tour by the patron himself. And afterwards there was a reception in his private rooms.
BS: It’s a magnificent old palace, with rooms with big windows affording a view of a park. And the table was beautifully set with Italian antipasti. With its good name the Deutsche Guggenheim opens all of these doors. Otherwise we never would have experienced something like that. Or our encounters in the Villa Romana in Florence. We went there last year to visit the artists featured in the Freisteller exhibition. They had received grants to work at the artists’ house and their work was shown at the Deutsche Guggenheim. It’s impressive to see how these artists live in this old villa in the hills near Florence. The view from up there is unique. The artists sat with us in the evening and presented their works to us again.
There is a big gap between Kandinsky and young contemporary artists such as the American Tom Sachs or the Villa Romana fellows. It’s unusual that you like both.
RS: It’s not just that we’re open-minded, we’re truly interested.
BS: You learn about them from exhibitions. There were exhibitions where I had never heard of the artists beforehand.
RS: We even became acquainted with Bill Viola that way. His work really impressed me. Or Kara Walker with her scissors cuts. We’ve never regretted it. On the contrary, by having constant contact with this art we have learned to love it.
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